Questions about Camunda Cloud functionality

Hakim: Hello @Josh Wulf & Folks
is there any documentation that covers the restrictions of the current version of Camunda Cloud ?
It seems that there are many functionalities that exist in Camunda cockpit (Process Instance Migration, Modification, History, …) that are not currently available in Camunda Cloud. Are these known restrictions? is there any plan to bring them to Camunda Cloud soon? or am I just doing something wrong that prevents me from having them?
Thanks

zell: Operate is the tool for Camunda Cloud and where you can inspect the current running instances and also history https://docs.camunda.io/docs/components/operate/index/|https://docs.camunda.io/docs/components/operate/index/

Migration is not yet implemented but it will come at some point. Correct me if I’m wrong @Felix Müller (Camunda)
We have no documentation about the differences, just the document itself about the tools

https://docs.camunda.io/docs/components/|https://docs.camunda.io/docs/components/

We strive to have at some point feature parity, but I cant give you any eta

Felix Müller (Camunda): @Hakim @zell is correct and we plan on implementing Migration and Modification in Operate too. Are there other features that you are missing besides that?

Hakim: thank you @zell @Felix Müller (Camunda) for your feedback
I’m currently assessing different options to move from a Cloud-based no-code automation tool. Camunda seems to be a good option to substitute it, I still need to know if Camunda Cloud supports the below functionalities that I’ve been using for several years in the other tool:

1- Support two different environments PRODUCTION and TEST to not affect the production data and instances during the TEST and or ACCEPTANCE phase
2- Link a specific version of the process to a specific version of the resources (forms, scripts, …) that are used in its steps (it’s not clear form me how to get the version of each resource that is used in a running process instance, and how to change them at runtime without creating a new process version, I’m not sure if it’s possible in Camunda) if I made a mistake in my form, for example, should I create a new process version after fixing my form and then upgrade my running instance to the new process version? is there a way to upgrade the form without upgrading the process instance?

3- It seems that the forms are not versioned, is that correct? what about the other resources that can be used in a process (tasks, scripts, …) are they versioned as well?

4- is it possible to know the values of the process variables at each step of the process after it’s finished or still running? very useful to debug and or to audit especially when the sequences of the process are driven by some variables.

5- is it possible to secure some variables, therefore, they won’t be visible for the users that will be using Operate/Cockpit? sensitive business KPI that should be available in the scope of the process to do some calculation but should not be visible to anyone or to the users of a specific pool/lane

6- how can I link the pool/participant to some users to control who can execute the activities of my process? is it possible to change the users of a pool/lane at runtime? I want to add a deputy for example automatically to validate the tasks of his manager that is OOO

7- The form builder is good but it lacks many functionalities to create real-life forms (date input, grid/table, support JS scripting, be able to make a form item visible/editable/required at runtime, custom styling/css, stepper that ideally reflects automatically the execution of the process in terms of user tasks, …etc) maybe some of these functionalities are already on your roadmap, is it accessible somewhere?

8- It seems that I have to do some development anyway to create real-life processes with Camunda Cloud => install a real dev environment (IDE, JDK, Camunda SDK …) do you plan to have an all-in-one cloud environment on Camunda Cloud to do everything from the browser without having to install a local dev environment? Maybe try as well to pre-package some functionalities that seem to require today a lot of dev boilerplate like creating a task or a script. The documentation is definitely good, but I’m afraid without having a real dev background it’s difficult to create real-life processes. The learning curve was a little bit steep for me even if I have a technical background, I guess because I used to do process automation and workflow applications using a low-code environment

Hakim: @Felix Müller (Camunda) we can have a short online call if you have some time, that would make that thread shorter :wink:
I have some other questions but I didn’t want to make that thread longer

Hakim: Good morning <@U9CLPB6MT>
any feedback bout https://camunda-cloud.slack.com/archives/C6WGNHV2A/p1639134740215800?thread_ts=1639076330.210000&amp;cid=C6WGNHV2A ?

Felix Müller (Camunda): 1. Yes, that’s possible
2. With forms that is not yet possible. The best bet would be to build your own user-facing application using the GraphQL Tasklist APIs for this. In the future I believe we should make something possible, it’s rather a question of when.
3. Forms are part of the Process (right now) and are versioned together with the Process. We are currently thinking about modifying this to version Forms separately (similar to what we do in Camunda Platform). You can decide about versioning of your workers that you implement (scripts, service tasks, etc.).
4. You can inspect variables in Operate and you can also get variables in your workers to use it in business logic. Additionally we are streaming all historic data per default to elasticsearch (elastic exporter), but you could also export historic data somewhere else if you like. (In Self-Managed at least, in SaaS there will be more APIs in the future to directly access the data).
5. I believe the best way to do this is in your Worker Code actually. We have a couple customers doing this. However, I am also a big fan of storing crucial data outside of the process and hold references in the process.
6. We are working on a feature which allows you to specify the User Task Assignee and Candidate Groups already at Design time in the processmodel. This could be also an expression which is evaluated at runtime. You can then query the User Tasks using API.
7. We don’t have a public roadmap yet, but we are considering additional capabilities in this area in 2022.
8. We do not want to have full low-code platform, but a developer-friendly process automation solution. I agree that in certain areas we could simplify more and streamline certain things (e.g. provide more examples on how to connect to certain systems or even run them on our platform). We are working on certain things early 2022 in this area which might help you. Stay tuned for this :slightly_smiling_face:
@Hakim Thanks a lot for your interest in Camunda Cloud. I answered most of your questions relatively quickly/short. If you are further evaluating Camunda Cloud for a project, I highly recommend to reach out via https://camunda.com/contact/ form. Then we can assign someone on our side to help answer your questions also on a call / zoom session and dive a bit deeper. Often the answer depends on your current process and environment. Best Felix

Hakim: thank you, @Felix Müller (Camunda) for your detailed answers I really appreciate your feedback
I’ll definitely use the contact form if I have further questions
Best Hakim

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